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Friday, May 1, 2026

James Risen on Why Trump's Charges Are Different Than for Whistleblowers Targeted Under Espionage Act - Democracy Now!

As former President Donald Trump faces Espionage Act charges, newly leaked audio reveals he showed a classified Pentagon document to multiple people in 2021 detailing a plan to attack Iran, contradicting Trump’s recent claim that he did not have classified documents. We speak with veteran national security reporter James Risen, who says Trump is a thief and should not be compared to whistleblower Reality Winner or others, but also notes, “I am no fan of the Espionage Act. I don’t think that it should be on the books.”

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: I really want to get your book, Jim, a fascinating book called The Last Honest Man: The CIA, the FBI, the Mafia, and the Kennedys—and One Senator’s Fight to Save Democracy, but first want to turn to the new developments in the charges that former President Trump violated the Espionage Act through the willful retention of classified records.

On Monday night, CNN released an audio recording of Trump from a 2021 conversation at his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club, when he discussed holding classified documents, knowing they were classified, knowing he hadn’t declassified them, showing them to a publisher and a writer and his aides. In the tape, Trump is heard shuffling through the papers as he describes a top-secret Pentagon document that Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair General Mark Milley had written, he said, a document about attacking Iran, and more. The recording, first...



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